Further Testing from OAT?

[Rebecca Parker]

Hi Dr. Woeller.

I sent Brian an OAT I ran on a 12-year-old autistic girl. The test is about 1 1/2 years old now, but she just turned 12. She is verbal, severely developmentally delayed, with moderate social anxiety and minimal eye contact. I wanted to ask you what follow-up testing you would recommend based on this OAT. Since the yeast markers were so mild, I did not treat them at the time. However, she is currently having sugar cravings (new to her: she typically likes a lot of cheese and cured meats) and an increase in silliness at night (after having low energy during the day). Because of the increase in sugar cravings and silliness, I was thinking about putting her on a mild yeast protocol (maybe biocidin and a high dose probiotic at night), and then retesting the OAT at the end of the protocol. Do you think that makes sense based on the new symptoms?

I had a couple questions:

1. I noticed there is a liposomal form of biocidin. When would you recommend using the liposomal form over the advanced formula? How would you dose the biocidin in a case like this?

2. When I repeat the OAT, should I run the full OAT or mOAT? Are there other tests that I should run based on this OAT? GPL-TOX because of elevated succinic acid?

3. What does it typically mean if tartaric is more elevated than arabinose? Would you think more about candida or aspergillus in this case? I figure the biocidin would be a good choice because it looks like it is effective for both.

Thanks very much!
Rebecca Parker, ND

[DrWoeller]

Rebecca,
I would actually have the parents collect urine ASAP for a new OAT and while you are waiting for the results start with the Biocidin and probiotic. That way, when the results are back you can get a fresh look at things, but also inquire as to any changes with the Biocidin.

1 – I mostly use the liposomal B12 for Aspergillus and other mold or resistant cases of bacteria. These are just general guidelines that I follow personally: 1 capsule of Biocidin to 5 drops of Biocidin to 2 pumps of Liposomal Biocidin.

2 – Good question. I could make the case for a number of tests. But, even with the Succinic being high, if I had to choose between the GPL-TOX and MycoTOX for this individual, I would go with the MycoTOX and then see what the OAT shows. If possible, do both the TOX and MycoTOX. Do you think its possible to do both?

3 – Aspergillus

Did you see the high Ascorbic acid, but normal Oxalic acid. This goes to show that high ascorbic acid doesn’t always lead to high oxalates.

Sincerely,
Dr. Woeller

[Rebecca Parker]

Thank you very much, Dr. Woeller! Would you run the whole OAT again at this point or just the mOAT? Would you also start her on the antifungal diet or wait for the OAT results? I know the antifungal diet would cause a lot of stress for this particular family. Do you find it is always necessary to do the diet with your candida protocols? I will check to see if they are willing to run the mycotox and the gpltox. Because of the tartaric, would you use the liposomal biocidin in this case? Thanks again!

[DrWoeller]

I would personally run the full OAT since it has been over a year. Starting an antifungal diet would be fine while you are waiting for results, but only if its doable.

I don’t think a strict antifungal diet is necessary for everyone. It depends on what their regular diet is like, i.e. McDonalds/Burger King versus relatively healthy and balanced.

In this case, the regular Biocidin should be fine.

Dr. Woeller

[Rebecca Parker]

Thanks very much! The family has a pretty healthy diet.

[DrWoeller]

Rebecca,
Okay. Then the yeast treatment approach should be enough and that way the family doesn’t have to get stressed out with a rigid diet.
Dr. Woeller

[Rebecca Parker]

Hi Dr. Woeller.

The patient’s mom is fine with ordering the OAT, mycotox and GPL-tox, so I think this will be a good learning case for me! I had a question about probiotics. This patient is very particular about supplements and I think chewable probiotics will work better for her than powdered. Do you think Klaire Labs Ther-biotic chewable will be high potency enough in this case? I could ask her to chew multiple tablets each night. Or do you have another suggestion?

Thanks!
Rebecca

[DrWoeller]

Rebecca,
Ther-biotic is a great probiotic. 25 billion IU’s per tablet is good. I think one or two of these per day is enough.
Dr. Woeller

[Rebecca Parker]

Thanks!

[Rebecca Parker]

Hi Dr. Woeller.

I wanted to follow-up on this patient. Unfortunately, the urine sample was lost in transit to the lab so they will need to re-do it. She started on biocidin 2 drops BID and 2 therbiotic children’s chewable at night. After a couple weeks of this protocol, she added Carlson’s Lemon Cod liver oil 1 tsp per day and also increased niacin to 125 mg BID, biotin to 1000 mcg BID, 25 mg taurine BID, 125 mcg lithium orotate BID, CoQ10 50 mg BID, pau d’arco 100 mg BID. (She takes a compounded supplement but those were the changes I made to it at that time.) As soon as she started the CLO and new compounded supplement, she started complaining of stomach pain and lost her appetite (normally she has a big appetite). I thought it was die-off and recommended activated charcoal and gave your die-off handout. The mom was unable to get her to take the charcoal but did other die-off support and that seemed to help. The this weekend I was updated that she has still been complaining of stomach pain 2-3 x week (unusual for her) and had painful constipation. I recommended magnesium oxide, ground flaxseeds and slippery elm. Apparently the constipation got very bad and painful. The mom was afraid she had swallowed a foreign object (she puts everything in her mouth) and took her to the hospital. They gave her an enema, rectal laxative, x-rayed her and found no foreign object but lots of backed up stool. She typically does not have digestive issues but the mom said there was an episode like this about 5 years ago and she had pin worms at that time. What do you think could be causing this? Does it sound like die-off? A reaction to one of the supplements she started? I had her stop the biocidin, but continue everything else. What do you advise at this point? Thanks very much! Rebecca

[DrWoeller]

Rebecca,
I would stop the cod liver oil for now and see if that helps. It may take a few days, but if it is the culprit they will see a positive change within 48 to 72 hours. If that doesn’t do it, then I would suggest stopping the compounded formula as well.

It’s hard to know exactly what the main culprit is. Die-off is a possibility, but probably not being that she has already been on Biocidin and TherBiotic for a few weeks. But, constipation can lead to stomach pain and even reflux in severe cases with kids. It’s more likely that she has had a build-up of stool overtime eventually leading to stomach pain. I have seen this happen even in kids who are having bowel movements daily.

I think what you are seeing is a manifestation of constipation and the supplements have just aggravated the situation.

Does this make sense?

Dr. Woeller

[Rebecca Parker]

Thanks! Is it possible the die-off caused her to incompletely evacuate her stools and over a few weeks started to cause stomach pain or do you think the problem is more long-standing?

[DrWoeller]

Rebecca,
Not knowing her history regarding bowel function I don’t know about long-standing, but constipation issues in autism are so common it wouldn’t surprise me the problem has been their for a while.

In my experience, die-off usually kicks in relatively soon after starting new antimicrobials or upping the dose of current antimicrobials. For example, it’s not uncommon to see die-off happen within 48 to 72 hours, but less common two weeks later.

Sincerely,
Dr. Woeller

[Rebecca Parker]

Thanks, Dr. Woeller! I took her off CLO and biocidin. She has continued the custom supplement, probiotic and magnesium oxide in the evenings and is doing much better. I also gave Mom the bristol stool chart. She said that for a very long time she had type 2 stools (so was likely constipated long-term even though having BMs daily). After the enema and rectal laxative she got at the hospital, she was having type 6 stools. Now she is having type 4 stools on the current protocol. Do you think I should have her re-try the CLO? I am thinking it may make sense to wait for the new OAT before starting the biocidin again. What are your thoughts? Thanks again!

[DrWoeller]

Rebecca,
Constipation is a such a problem in kids, particularly autistic children, I think it should almost be assumed they have a level of it until proven otherwise.

If this child is more stable now, then it should be okay to proceed with CLO, but I would suggest starting a lower dose than before such as 1/2 teaspoon. Just take it slow.

Dr. Woeller

[Author]

Posts